The Hatch Podcast

Transforming Knee Surgery: Dr. Dan Matthews on Innovation, Opioid Alternatives, and Patient-Centered Care

• Hatch Fairhope • Season 1 • Episode 8

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How can innovative thinking in medicine redefine patient care and recovery?

In this episode of The Hatch Podcast, part of our Medical Innovation Series (Season 1), we explore cutting-edge advancements in orthopedic surgery with Dr. Dan Matthews, an accomplished surgeon, Air Force veteran, and medical entrepreneur. Dr. Matthews discusses the development of the MACB Introducer—a revolutionary device that reduces opioid use and accelerates recovery for knee replacement patients.

Through candid insights into his career and the challenges of medical entrepreneurship, Dr. Matthews explains how innovation, patient-centered solutions, and determination can transform healthcare. Whether you're in the medical field or simply interested in breakthroughs that enhance lives, this episode offers a deep dive into the intersection of technology and care.

What You’ll Learn:

  • How the opioid crisis spurred Dr. Matthews’ medical innovation.
  • The benefits of the MACB Introducer in knee replacement surgeries.
  • Insights into navigating medical entrepreneurship.
  • The role of robotics, AI, and innovation in healthcare’s future.

Quotes:

  • “Innovation often starts with identifying a need and having the courage to pursue a solution.” – Dr. Dan Matthews
  • “Opioids used to be the standard for post-surgical pain management, but we’ve proven that’s no longer necessary.” – Dr. Dan Matthews
  • “AI and robotics have a role in healthcare, but nothing replaces the human touch and expertise.” – Dr. Dan Matthews

Sources and Links:

Conclusion:
Dr. Dan Matthews exemplifies the spirit of innovation, turning challenges into opportunities to enhance patient care. His story offers valuable lessons for aspiring medical entrepreneurs and highlights the power of collaboration and persistence in bringing impactful solutions to life. Stay tuned for more inspiring episodes where innovation takes center stage.

[00:00:00] Introduction to the Hatch Podcast
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Voice-Over: Hatch. This is the Hatch Podcast, where technology comes to life. A Hatch Fairhope production.

Host: At Hatch Fairhope, we're all about cultivating creativity, driving innovation, and accelerating growth. Welcome to the Hatch Podcast. Each episode will bring you inspiring conversations with innovators who are pushing boundaries, solving problems, and building the next wave of success.


[00:00:26] Meet Dr. Dan Matthews
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Host: Today, I'm joined by Dr. Dan Matthews, an orthopedic surgeon and sports medicine specialist practicing right here in Baldwin County. A decorated Air Force veteran, former NCAA Division I basketball player, and Rhodes Scholar nominee, Dr. Matthews has demonstrated excellence both on and off the court, in service to his country and in the field of medicine.

Throughout his 30 year career, Dr. Matthews has been at the forefront of orthopedic research, and he joins us today to discuss his groundbreaking MACB introducer, a device transforming pain management for knee replacement patients, reducing reliance on opioids, and improving recovery outcomes. We'll dive into the story behind its development, but How it's changing the surgical landscape and the impact it's already making.

Dr. Dan, thank you for taking the time to talk with us today.

Dr. Dan: Well, good morning. Thank you so much for allowing me to come and share my story with you.


[00:01:23] Dr. Matthews' Background and Journey
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Host: Can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what brought you to Baldwin County?

Dr. Dan: Right. Well, it's always a journey, right?

It's kind of interesting to look back now after 61 years of life and see where have you been. I grew up a, uh, dependent of an Air Force chaplain, so I'm a preacher's kid. And with that meant that we lived all over the world. So every two years we'd move. And, uh, so I've lived in Turkey and the Philippines, Nebraska, I think those are all foreign countries, but, uh, went to high school in Florida where I met my high school sweetheart.

And, uh, we've been married now 34 years. Um, so I kind of grew up in the South, uh, in my young adult years and then, uh, Went to, uh, the Citadel where I was blessed enough to play college basketball up there. So that was a lifelong dream and then left there, went back to med school in Florida and then did my orthopedic surgery training in Jackson, Mississippi and in Virginia.

Um, did a fellowship over in Germany and then spent three years in the Air Force. So I took a scholarship to medical school and then paid that back, which was a great time of life, uh, to serve our country and then work with some incredible people up at Langler for Space in, uh, in Virginia. And then we moved to Fairhope.

My wife, I'd drug her around the South, uh, through all the education and training and she found Fairhope, uh, when she worked with a company that had a Plan of action meeting at the Grand Hotel. So she said, you got to go down and look at this beautiful place in Alabama. And I said, Alabama? Really? You want to live in Alabama?

It was interesting up in Virginia though. There were, uh, two comments I got when they said, where are you guys going? Where are you going? And I said, I'm going to Fairhope, Alabama. And they said one, either of this. They said, Alabama, you can go anywhere. Why Alabama? Or they said, Fairhope. I've always wanted to live in Fairhope.

So, you have to know this place. It's a special place. So, we've had the privilege of raising two kids here and they're grown now. And, uh, it's been home for 26 years.

Host: So, you've been an orthopedic surgeon for three decades now?

Dr. Dan: Yeah, I finished medical school in 1990. And then my orthopedic surgery training and fellowship in that, in 1995.

So, uh, you know, we're just about to push 30 years.


[00:03:26] Innovations in Orthopedic Surgery
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Host: And so the reason we're really sitting down today is to talk about your journey in the, in the startup world and kind of how you got connected with Hatch and the history there. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Dan: Sure. It's, uh, throughout medicine, I've always, um, kind of had an innovative mind.

I've designed two or three things, uh, tools in the operating room and techniques on how to do things. Um, and there's a, there's a story behind all that with one of the devices that I, Worked on and presented at a meeting out in Sun Valley, Idaho, and got to go to dinner with three of the giants, North Peak Surgery back in the day.

And when I came back and spoke to my partner in the, in the development of this product, uh, he was shocked and said, you did what? I told him everything and they patented everything and kind of took everything. So it was kind of a shock for me, understanding the business side of medicine as I was kind of naive at that time.

So, um, as I kind of went through the process, what really started this was. Two fold was the opioid epidemic, uh, and as North Peak Surgeon, we prescribe a lot of opioids because, uh, the injuries that we take care of in the surgery we perform are painful. And so, I started really looking at that and seeing what I could do to address, uh, opioid use with my patients.

And one of the big areas that I do is, um, is joint replacements. And specifically for this situation was total knee replacements. Um, the number one reason in the need for inpatient surgeries for those patients to require to be hospitalized is pain management. And the number one treatment for pain after surgery is opioids.

Host: Okay, so it's not the actual surgery. It's the pain management that would keep them having to stay in the hospital.

Dr. Dan: Correct. So we've made such advancements that you don't need to be in the hospital, but often need an IV to give you pain medications, which is often narcotics or opioids. So as I was looking at that, and then the same time in this country, we started looking, there was a push from the Centers of Medicare Services and Medicaid Services, CMS, uh, to try to push Uh, these procedures to an outpatient setting so they don't have to stay in the hospital for many reasons.

And so we're in dilemma with, we're being pushed to take these patients to outpatient, but they require pain management, which is opioids. And we're also trying to look at not using opioids. So you can see the dilemma there. So as I started really looking at that and trying to, I realized that, uh, there are some ways that we can do this without opioids.

And one of them is with regional blocks. And so regional blocks are when generally anesthesia services will. Provide numbing medicine, like lidocaine, novocaine, when you go to the dentist. They'll do that in a block in the extremity that will numb up the whole extremity for a period of time. And that allows you to not have pain right after surgery.

That's great, but you have to find an anesthesiologist willing to do that. And then for outpatient total joints, okay, for the first 12 hours, but what about the 12 hours after that? Well, then you have to take opioids or something to help it. So I was looking for a way to do this with extended pain relief, uh, beyond the 12 to 14 hours that a block gets you.


[00:06:27] The MACB Introducer: Development and Impact
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Dr. Dan: And that's what, Gave the impetus for developing a technique, uh, and then a tool, uh, to provide extended pain relief in a non opioid setting. And that's where the birth came from with a MACB. The area that I operate is an area that is very accessible to what we call the adductor canal, which is where the major nerves that innervate the knee, that give sensation of pain in the knee after surgery, are right there.

But normally as orthopedic surgeons, we don't. Go to that region, we stay out of there, but then we can get there very easily through a normal surgical incision that we use for total knee replacements. And so I started, uh, looking at how I could get into that area, uh, to safely block those nerves with Rapivacaine, which is a, a Novocaine type.

Um, and so I started developing that. I went to the cadaver lab and we dissected 10 cadavers, uh, trying to find out exactly where we were, what we were doing, um, and then from that developed the technique, uh, which was the MACB technique and adductor canal placement by the surgeon as opposed to the anesthesiologist.

It turns out, and that's a published study now that I've published in peer review, um, a medical journal. That showed that actually the surgeon place block that might be is actually superior to the anesthesia block because I block more nerves. So not only are we seeing a better outcome with patient's relief of pain, but it's actually a reason for it, uh, that's based on anatomy.

And so that was nice to see that. I wasn't expecting that. I knew that the blocks were seen to be doing better, but why? And now we know why. So we published that in, 2020. Um, and then I started looking at outcomes of patients. So how can we, how are these patients doing? Can we get them as outpatients? And so we looked at the first 980, I think, uh, was another, um, study that I did that I presented at meetings, uh, looking at outcomes with outpatient needs.

So we've been able to successfully using a multimodal non narcotic pain regimen, Tylenol, Ibuprofen with the blocks, and cryotherapy, ice therapy. That all combined, um, we were able to get patients to perform a total knee replacement, have them up walking in an hour, an hour and a half, and then discharge home by three hours, and then have home therapy for the first six days, uh, and literally have hundreds of patients that don't use narcotics.

Now that is amazing. Really shocking to me doing this 30 years when we first started doing total knees when I was in the 1990s, um, You would come to the hospital the night before, uh, you would, uh, donate a unit of blood to yourself. The surgery took two or three hours. It was so painful that we gave you a morphine pump, and you gave yourself morphine shots.

Because you're on a morphine pump called a PCA, patient controlled analgesics. You couldn't get out of bed and walk, so they gave you a machine and you sat in bed and they moved your knee. And that was the standard of care. And some of that is still going on today, but you contrast that to what's going on today, where the night before surgery, you take a handful of pills, which is different block, different pathways of pain, uh, transmission.

It blocks those. The morning of, you take a handful of pills. I have you drink 12 ounces of fluid two hours before you come to the, uh, surgery center. Uh, which you can do a clear fluid, like a Gatorade or something that has carbohydrates. Settles the stomach. Helps the nausea afterwards. Uh, and then we do the surgery.

It takes about an hour. And then I place these blocks and I place a catheter using the MACB introducer, uh, into the space that gives you five to six days of extended pain relief. Uh, you're up walking about an hour, by two and a half hours you're home. And then like I say, there's hundreds of patients that don't use any narcotics.

Some patients do still use some, and that's okay, but we've reduced the amount significantly. Uh, and the side effects of narcotics and opioids, even understanding the addiction issue, but constipation, nausea and vomiting, urinary retention, there's a lot of There's a lot of, uh, issues with narcotics. So it's been neat to see that journey go through that.

And even in my lifetime of watching the way I used to do it and do it now has been just a monumental and, and the game changer, all of that works. The it's, it's called an ERAS protocol, advanced recovery after surgery. And it came out of the, uh, urology and the GI world. It wasn't in the orthopedic world.

And I kind of took all those principles and transferred it to the orthopedic world. Like in 2018 is when I started all this. Um, but what happened is I was teaching this technique and to, to surgeons and people were struggling a little bit with where to put the catheter and how to do that. And so that made the necessity to develop a, a device that could put it the same place every time in a reproducible manner.

And so the MACB introducer was, was, uh, was developed.

Host: So we talked about obviously the reduction in, um, pain in medicine and I'm just assuming that because of the. You know, if you're, if you're not dealing with much pain, your recovery is obviously going to be faster because you're able to, like, start your therapies.

Am I, is that correct?

Dr. Dan: No, you're right. In fact, sometimes, um, one of the challenges I have, especially with my younger male patients, um, They're not feeling pain, so they do too much.

So it's still

Dr. Dan: surgery, right? So you have, so God gave us pain for a reason, right? And so, and I do get that question sometimes when I'm presenting to other surgeons.

Well, if we take all their pain away, they're going to do too much. And then they swell and it slows them down. And he's exactly right. My argument is that, yes, but we're going to treat the pain with something, either narcotics and the issues with that, or with this block that I've been able to develop. Um, So we treat it either way.

So we just need to educate the patient. So I tell them all the time. I hope you don't have pain. I don't want you to. But don't overdo it. You still had surgery and your body will tell you, even though you're not in pain, the leg will swell up and then that slows down the rehab. So yes, they do do better with rehab quicker.

And but yet they can go too quick. So it's a fine line. And that's just the education part for the patients.


[00:12:07] Challenges and Successes in Medical Innovation
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Host: So let's talk a little bit about why you got into medicine and it. Did you ever see yourself maybe crossing over to the business side of it, especially in the startup world? Yeah,

Dr. Dan: no. So quickly, how I got into medicine, I played collegiate basketball.

One of my teammates blew out his ACL. I was a biology, kinesiology major. And I took him to see the team orthopedist up in Charleston, South Carolina. And we started talking. He invited me to come watch the surgery. I did, and I fell in love. I said, phew. I want to do that and I had never thought about being a doctor before that, uh, I went to see my advisor, uh, at the university there and, and said, listen, I'm just kind of a dumb jock.

How can I go to med school? I mean, I really knew nobody that had ever done that. And, um. And he said, yeah, you're second in your class. You could do it. So that was the emphasis. Wow. Okay. So, so then I went through to get the medicine really to be an orthopedic surgeon. So I'm so thankful and blessed that I was able to get to medical school and then actually get to match an orthopedic surgery because it's very competitive.

And, uh, so I was able to do that. And so that started me in orthopedics. I've always had some. Ideas. I'm always jotting down in research studies. So I've been in research and published a lot of papers and presented a lot. Um, the transition to the business side has been, uh, educational. I have learned a lot, um, some bumps in the road, but overall it's been very positive as far as my learning curve and it happened during COVID.

So when I was dealing with businesses and trying to negotiate to try to get help, uh, they all shut down. So I had to keep going on my own. Um, Through the process of intellectual property to get a U. S. patent. So to secure a U. S. patent was interesting. So I did receive a utility patent for the MACB technique and the tool.

Um, and then just be able to negotiate with companies to see, uh, who might, uh, benefit from this, uh, from the company standpoint. That's where the hatch came in. Um, Rick Miller is a good friend of mine. We've been to church for years and friends of the family and the, and, uh, So Rick came and said, what are you doing with all this?

And so he started explaining how the hatch works. And I said, well, you know, what I need really is I need to develop a prototype. I've got this idea. I've got all this stuff here. I just need a prototype. And so he introduced me to Steve Hussey over here at the, at the college. And I sat down and talked with him.

We talked to the, uh, the lab here. And so we ever developed the first prototype here, 3d printed. Uh, we did those and then went through the process, uh, of kind of fine tuning that. Uh, and then those went through some, uh, some trials, some cadaver labs, I used those for a while. And actually, that was the original one we were going to use, was the, the 3D printed.

Um, unfortunately, when I got with industry and through the FDA, they frowned a little bit on 3D printing, is what I was informed. And so I had to go to injection molding, which is more expensive, um, but a little more reproducible as far as consistency for a medical device. So, so I started with a hatch there and then we had the big launch and just looking at some of these startup companies that started, I have a chance to be involved as, as one of the companies, uh, that was highlighted in that.

Um, so we started the MACB LLC, which is, A startup company that, uh, really has one product, and that's the MacBee Introducer. But it also comes along with the technique and the, uh, the know how and the, the background from the publications to all the videos and things to, really the goal is to teach other surgeons how to do this to provide it for their patients.

Host: So adopting a new device in the surgical world takes time and buy in from other professionals. How have your peers responded to the MacBee Introducer?

Dr. Dan: Yeah, I think, once again, um, need, uh, really stimulates people to look for innovations or other options. And so, once again, because of the opioid epidemic and the push for outpatient surgery, surgeons are looking for this.

And so, the first place that it comes out is at medical meetings. So, I've presented my, uh, paper, um, my data, uh, my outcomes and all of that at many meetings from the, uh, Alabama Orthopedic Society, Mississippi Orthopedic Society Annual Meetings. Uh, I was up at Boston for, um, ISSACOS, which is the International Meeting of Knee Surgeons.

I just got back from Budapest, Hungary, where I presented over there at the World Orthopedic Congress. So they invited me to speak because they've seen me. Speak at other places or that. And so the surgeons come there to hear and they want to know there, there's three different types of surgeons. There's a group of surgeons in my experience that are very innovative and are looking for ways to always get better, which is kind of where I fall.

You know, like just, just today I was telling a patient, Hey, here's something we've learned from patients. I can tune up a little bit. So I give them another. Particular device to help. So that group of surgeons are very quick to innovate. They'll listen to a talk and they'll say, Ooh, I can do that. And they integrate it quickly into their practice.

There's another group that want to see the outcomes paper. They want to see the white paper. They want to get their hands on it, do the cadaver work and, and those guys. And then once I've had those. Doctors in front that I could show them that the adoption is very high. And then there's another group of surgeons say, no, my patients do great.

I don't need to do anything. So, so I don't even go after those guys. So the other two groups are the ones that are looking for it. Um, and I'm not unique. Everybody's looking for better outcomes from their patients, less narcotics, less complications. And so that's where I've, I've run into most of them. Um, and that's kind of bread.

And so that's where we went to the device because I was teaching them how to do it with another, uh, normal surgical tool, but the dexterity of it, the reproducibility of it was a little bit. Difficult for some people because the tool isn't the same at every institution. So you got variability. And so the feedback I got from the market and talking to those surgeons, uh, where we need something to reproduce, but we can do it every time.

And so that's where the MACB Introducer was developed. So that was all done before the MACB Introducer developed. So, It might be introducer and the company started really now once we develop that. And then of course, spending the money for intellectual property and all the lawyers and getting through the FDA registration is a big deal and costs a lot of money.

So at that point, then we started the company so that we can actually start seeing what the market will bear on it and if it'll actually sell and pay all that back. What I've learned a lot is about how to develop a medical device. And in medicine, uh, for many good reasons, though, it's difficult. It's not just like making another widget that you're going to use to a toy for a kid.

It's, uh, there's a lot of regulations involved and specifications that have to go through. So I, um, Got partnered up with a company that's a U. S. Company that bases its production in Taiwan. Um, but I chose this company because they work with a lot of the devices I use now in surgery are manufactured by this company.

And so they have all of the standardization set up and the sterilizations. And the FDA, they've already been through all that. So, uh, and the company was a large company, one of the biggest companies actually in the world that's in the States. So I talked to them and got hooked up this company. So from there we went through, uh, all the design, uh, taking from my original stuff from here, from coastal Alabama, uh, with Hussey.

Um, and I kind of started refining that. To apply it to now we had to transfer from a 3D printed to a injection molding. So this company is doing that. It's a company, uh, that's called New Deotonics. And so I partnered with them as my manufacturing partner. Uh, and then you have to look for distribution. So one of the things that my device does is it facilitates the use of another company's device.

So if you have a catheter that goes to drip the numbing medicine, then you have to have a device to to distribute the numbing medicine. And so that's a company that's a U. S. company, um, that I'm working with, um, to facilitate the use of their device, then, which will then give them the relief for five days.

So, so you kind of got to get in partnership with different companies and then work out distribution agreements and things like that. And then the MACB itself. Uh, we can distribute directly, uh, from that company, uh, so it can be ordered online. So as we start getting out more and more, and we just launched the website, uh, December 1.

Uh, so as, as I, I'm asking, I'm going to be presenting out in Phoenix, Arizona, Scottsdale in March, and that'll be to, I think about 200 or 300 surgeons, and then also sales representatives from some of the orthopedic companies around the, Uh, so once they get word of it, then the idea is that if they're searching there, the surgeon's interested, then they'll either go right to the website and they can order the device.

They're very inexpensive. They're less than 100. They're not expensive at all. Um, once they can do that, or they could go through this other company that's going to be a distribution partner can do it that way. Um, Or they could go back as a sales rep, uh, that says, Hey, I got a surgeon who's, you know, wanting to do this but not quite sure how to do it.

Then they could introduce the MACB introducer and technique to them. And then they certainly could contact me where I can give instructions. Some of the companies might bring the surgeon down and they can watch me do it in the operating room and I can show them that way.

Host: And we'll make sure we put all of your contact information in the show notes so people know exactly how to get in touch with you for that.

So

Dr. Dan: that's the idea. The idea really, it's really to surgeons, um, and then to representatives that work with surgeons that say, Hey, this surgeon's wanting to do this, but they're not able to get them out of the hospital because of pain or it's not working for, or they don't want to use, or anesthesia, what I run into around the world, not to bash the anesthesia services, but there's a lot of anesthesiologists around the country, and I hear this from surgeons all the time that are not interested in, And putting these blocks and putting these catheters in because they don't want to manage it.

And so, uh, as the captain of the ship, the North Peak surgeon, uh, we manage it all anyway. And so, uh, the technique I've developed in the tool and working with the infusion pump is minimal as far as the management for the surgeon. So once I show them that and give them the information, then they went, Oh, I can do that.

Uh, and then they put that in. So, it's really marketed to surgeons, um, and then to representatives who work with surgeons that identify that, hey, this is something could help that surgeon's patients.

Host: So, I know you also got to meet a lot of the founders who came through our Hatch Powered by Bessel cohort that just finished.

And it was just amazing to me to get to see all that's happening in the medical innovation space. Can you talk a little bit about kind of how you see the future of healthcare innovation? Are you excited about what you're seeing? Or what do you think that, where do you think that's going?

Dr. Dan: Well, it was neat to be part of that.

I was really humbled. I was blown away by, by all the other companies, you know, I mean, it was amazing, amazing stuff. And so it's the beauty of the human mind we were created to come up with all these things. Um, there's a lot going on. Um, AI is certainly making its, uh, probe into, uh, healthcare. Um, A lot of huge potential for benefit and as with anything, there's some, some question marks.

Robotics has been around for a while. Um, in orthopedics, it has, the outcomes are no different when you use robotics, but the processes can be improved somewhat. Um, so there's a role. But, and I use some, uh, robotics preoperably and then some computer assisted stuff intraoperably, but I use it where I think there's a benefit for the patient because there's a lot of cost involved with it.

And sometimes there's a lot of tail wagging the dog. Oh, you do robots got to be better. And that's not necessarily true. When I was teaching the residents and the students that I work with, uh, you know, when you have trouble in the operating room, you don't call a robot in to fix it, you call a human. So, so if you're having trouble with robotics, you.

And then you get the human and get another human to help you if you need some help. So I think the, the gifts you have from feeling your hands and the feel, uh, so I was using a, uh, kind of an inoperative robotics kind of computer assisted for a hip replacement recently with a North Peak resident and everything was perfect on the numbers.

On the computer, but you feel it, it was loose and the computer can't do that. So that was my point of those, Hey, this is helpful, but if you just rely on that and you don't use the human touch and the human experience, you know, if you train for years to be an orthopedic surgeon, there's a reason why you get that touch.

And after 30 years, you can feel things. So, so I think it's the balance. So I think the history, the future going forward, AI is going to be helpful where we need to have it helpful. Let's just don't go off the cliff with it. Um, so that's exciting area for as well. I think the. We, we, we're getting the push on, on opioids, um, but we do have to kind of curtail that.

It's, I kind of came through a time in the 1990s when I started, uh, and I finished medical school in 1990, uh, the, the pain became the fifth vital sign. And so there was a big push then that doctors are under treating pain. And so you had to do a pain analysis for the patient in the hospital. And if they had too high a pain, then you actually got kind of dinged and chart knocked saying, Hey, you know, you weren't treating pain.

It was a bad thing for hospital. Uh, group of surgeons that weren't treating pain. So some of this push, we were pushed to, to stay ahead of the pain, take your pills before you hurt, you know, and that a combination of many other issues in this country, um, has been part of it. So, you know, I don't, I think a lot of the blame and surgeons write too much stuff, there's a lot of patient demand for it and people are hurting and not understanding how to manage that pain.

But a lot of it was also, we were pushed to that because it was a fifth vital. So I think we got to switch that. So that's changing now, which I like. So that's really good. I think the multi modal pain, uh, process of using different medications to avoid having to use a lot of narcotics is another really good thing.


[00:24:56] Advice for Aspiring Medical Entrepreneurs
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Host: So as someone who's been on this entrepreneurial journey, do you have any advice? What would you give to somebody, um, You know, who's starting out, who's in the middle, who's thinking about giving up. Yeah, right, I think that's actually

Dr. Dan: what you just said. Don't give up, right? Um, uh, don't run out of money, but be smart about it.

Um, yeah, it's, uh, I think what's interesting is, uh, how many times, uh, have you had a great idea and, um, and then somebody else did it? You know, that happens often, many people have ideas and somebody comes out with, Oh, I thought about that 10 years ago. Right. So I think, um, you know, if you come up with a concept, especially in a, in a, in a spectrum or a realm that that's unique to your field, right.

And in medicine, the engineers, the companies can't come up with these ideas because they're not doing it. And so the best innovators are those that are in the field, especially in surgery. So as we get, I need a tool that does this, you know, and we do that all the time, but taking it from there going forward is huge.

So my lessons learned from the past was I gave that intellectual property away, not because I'm trying to profit on it, just because it was developed by somebody else because I didn't understand the process in talking to industry. So here's the big thing you have to, what I've learned is you have to, um, solidify your intellectual property.

So that you can talk to them. Most of these, uh, companies won't talk to you just because you have an idea. And so you take the idea through it. Now that's a process to get a U. S. patent, but if you truly have a unique idea, um, that's something that can be profitable to companies, then get it secured and then you can talk and they're willing to talk to you then at that point, if you control that, and that can be a patent pending, once you apply, you can have it pending.

But it's just interesting how things changed when I had that, when I was talking before that, um, there wasn't very much attention. So I would definitely think about, if you have an idea that's, that's something that's really unique, uh, and novel that you could get into, and the patent pending gives you a few years to develop it without going fully to patent.

So that's not Huge of costs, except for the lawyers that, or if you write your own patent, um, application. So that's something to do for sure. I think that changes everything once you get that. Uh, and then of course you can get into licensing or selling it or just use it. My drive in the beginning of this was just for me and my patients.

It was interesting when I, when I developed it, I was doing it. If we go back a little bit, maybe. Um, when I was doing this, a representative from one of the companies that I'm working with now came to me and didn't know what I was doing because they, uh, I was putting in my own blocks and they work with anesthesia.

That's who does the box. And she was monitoring the blocks on the floor at the hospital and realized that my blocks were superior from the patient control pain standpoint. And she came and said, what are you doing? So I explained to her what I was doing and, um, She asked me if I would, um, speak to teach their company represented what I was doing out in California.

So I did, I did a little, um, uh, zoom meeting and I presented my data to him and the president of the company was watching that video and said, that's it. He's been doing this for years. They would spend millions of dollars teaching anesthesia to do it. They'd get back to the hospital and the surgeon would say, nope, I don't want it.

And their business was dead, but because we were the captain of the ship and controlled what was going on. So he flew down from California to see me as I was speaking to him and sharing all my stuff with him, rather naively, of course, uh, I realized they see value in this for their company to sell their product.

And I had something that they had never had before because they had the surgeon doing these blocks. And at that point I said, Ooh. And I backed off and said, so, so that's because I already done that two or three times before and they took it, ran with it. So I realized there's value for them in that and you have some value to them because they can't do it without you.

So that's what I'd say is just, if you find something that's unique like that, uh, and get some advice about it. I've got, I talked to Rick and some people at hatch that people have done this, you know, and Bessel, who's fantastic. Uh, not Bessel, um, Chris Danik. Bessel's the company, but it's Chris Danik, I'm thinking it's Chris Bessel, it's not Chris, Chris Danik.

But, uh, but I taught, you know, just, you know. To be able to, how to talk to these companies. And so I think, you know, get some advice on how to talk to him and the hatch and, and Chris would be fantastic people to talk to as you get going.


[00:29:05] How to Connect with Dr. Dan Matthews
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Host: So Dr. Dan, where can people connect with you if they're looking to get more information or to reach you?

Dr. Dan: Yeah. As you know, so I, I mean, I, my practice is Alabama North peak sports medicine certainly can reach me there, but, but really I, I got this website up with the MACB LLC and almost everything's on there, uh, is really as MACB solutions. Um, dot com. So macb solutions. com and. It's a site for people can order the product, but you can go through the education, the research.

It's got all my talks. It actually has the talk on there that I gave over in, um, Budapest. It's got my publications on there. So if you're interested in just the background for it, it's got all the data on there. It's got some videos. There's animated videos that show you how to use the tool and device, and there's some surgical videos.

So if you're not You know, if you're queasy about the, there's not a lot of blood and guts, but you know, it's a surgery. So you can watch the animated instead of the surgical videos, but they're all in there and that'd be the best place to probably get more information. And then there's a contact, you can email me on there or email the company and they'll get to me.

And I'd be happy to speak to you and if it's something you think would help your patients or your, your surgeons, man, would love to introduce it to you.

Host: Awesome. Thank you again for chatting with

us today. We'll do it again soon.

Dr. Dan: All right. Thank you so much.


[00:30:13] Conclusion and Credits
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Voice-Over: Hatch. This has been the Hatch Podcast, a production of the Hatch team in Fairhope, Alabama. Host Stephanie Glines, producer Tim Scott, executive producer and creator Keith Glines. Visit HatchFairhope. com for more information.